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    <fireside:genDate>Sat, 20 Jun 2026 03:42:20 +0000</fireside:genDate>
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    <title>Dave &amp; Gunnar Show - Episodes Tagged with “Voight Kampff”</title>
    <link>https://dgshow.org/tags/voight-kampff</link>
    <pubDate>Thu, 04 Jun 2026 09:00:00 -0500</pubDate>
    <description>David Egts and Gunnar Hellekson discuss privacy, security, robots, and internet ephemera.</description>
    <language>en-us</language>
    <itunes:type>episodic</itunes:type>
    <itunes:subtitle>Not our circus, not our monkey.</itunes:subtitle>
    <itunes:author>David Egts &amp; Gunnar Hellekson</itunes:author>
    <itunes:summary>David Egts and Gunnar Hellekson discuss privacy, security, robots, and internet ephemera.</itunes:summary>
    <itunes:image href="https://media24.fireside.fm/file/fireside-images-2024/podcasts/images/1/1b67eddd-d80f-444d-ba32-aa9ef36b589d/cover.jpg?v=2"/>
    <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
    <itunes:keywords>privacy, security, robots, internet, open source, technology</itunes:keywords>
    <itunes:owner>
      <itunes:name>David Egts &amp; Gunnar Hellekson</itunes:name>
      <itunes:email>gunnar@hellekson.com</itunes:email>
    </itunes:owner>
<itunes:category text="Society &amp; Culture"/>
<itunes:category text="News">
  <itunes:category text="Tech News"/>
</itunes:category>
<itunes:category text="Technology"/>
<item>
  <title>Episode 285: Location, Location, Threat Model</title>
  <link>https://dgshow.org/285</link>
  <guid isPermaLink="false">e190ecec-3e76-4c03-9324-084ab343bfc1</guid>
  <pubDate>Thu, 04 Jun 2026 09:00:00 -0500</pubDate>
  <author>David Egts &amp; Gunnar Hellekson</author>
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  <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
  <itunes:author>David Egts &amp; Gunnar Hellekson</itunes:author>
  <itunes:subtitle>This week Dave and Gunnar talk about markdown, caveman, and dark software factories!</itunes:subtitle>
  <itunes:duration>36:33</itunes:duration>
  <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
  <itunes:image href="https://media24.fireside.fm/file/fireside-images-2024/podcasts/images/1/1b67eddd-d80f-444d-ba32-aa9ef36b589d/episodes/e/e190ecec-3e76-4c03-9324-084ab343bfc1/cover.jpg?v=1"/>
  <description>&lt;p&gt;This week &lt;a href="https://dgshow.org/hosts/dave" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;Dave&lt;/a&gt; and &lt;a href="https://dgshow.org/hosts/gunnar" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;Gunnar&lt;/a&gt; talk about markdown, caveman, and dark software factories!&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="https://warhammer40000.com/" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;Warhammer 40,000&lt;/a&gt;: “In the grim darkness of the far future, there is only war.”&lt;br&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birds_Aren%27t_Real" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;Birds Aren’t Real&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="https://news.slashdot.org/story/26/04/13/0115243/robot-birds-deployed-by-park-to-attract-real-birds---built-by-high-school-students" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;Robot Birds Deployed by Park to Attract Real Birds - Built By High School Students&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="https://blog.cloudflare.com/markdown-for-agents/" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;Introducing Markdown for Agents&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt;

&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Counterpoint: &lt;a href="https://bgslabs.org/blog/why-are-we-using-markdown/" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;Why the heck are we still using Markdown??&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="https://github.com/JuliusBrussee/caveman" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;caveman&lt;/a&gt;: why use many token when few do trick&lt;br&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;See also: &lt;a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_Chinese" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;Classical Chinese&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Dark Software Factories&lt;br&gt;

&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDcgHzCBgmQ" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;The 5 Levels of AI Coding (Why Most of You Won't Make It Past Level 2)&lt;/a&gt; by Nate B. Jones&lt;br&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;StrongDM Software Factory: &lt;a href="https://factory.strongdm.ai/" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;Software Factories And The Agentic Moment&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="https://www.danshapiro.com/blog/2026/01/the-five-levels-from-spicy-autocomplete-to-the-software-factory/" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;The Five Levels: from Spicy Autocomplete to the Dark Factory&lt;/a&gt; by Dan Shapiro&lt;br&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/208564/freedoms-forge-by-arthur-herman/" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;Freedom’s Forge&lt;/a&gt; by Arthur Herman&lt;br&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhXgkQ3nYeE" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;I Watched 3 Companies Lay Off Their Managers. All 3 Hit the Same Wall.&lt;/a&gt; by Nate B. Jones&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;

&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Cutting Room Floor&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="https://editor.p5js.org/isohedral/full/vJa5RiZWs" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;Interactive XKCD Dependency comic&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="https://www.neatorama.com/2026/02/19/A-Unique-Property-For-Sale-In-Pennsylvania/" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;A Unique Property For Sale In Pennsylvania&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="https://www.neatorama.com/2026/02/16/Luxurious-Home-in-a-Decommissioned-Grain-Elevator/" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;Luxurious Home in a Decommissioned Grain Elevator&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/li&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;
</description>
  <itunes:keywords>Warhammer 40000, Warhammer, fake birds, fake fake birds, real fake birds, Voight-Kampff, xkcd, real estate, bunkers, grain elevators, Pippi Longstocking, markdown, Cloudflare, HTML, AI, generative AI, context windows, AI agents, agentic AI, caveman, Wenyan, tokens, dark software factories, dark factories, software factories, sales factories, Nate B. Jones, W. Edwards Deming, Freedom's Forge, Arthur Herman, product management, sales, technology sales, routing, sense making, accountability</itunes:keywords>
  <content:encoded>
    <![CDATA[<p>This week <a href="https://dgshow.org/hosts/dave" rel="nofollow noopener">Dave</a> and <a href="https://dgshow.org/hosts/gunnar" rel="nofollow noopener">Gunnar</a> talk about markdown, caveman, and dark software factories!</p>

<ul>
<li><a href="https://warhammer40000.com/" rel="nofollow noopener">Warhammer 40,000</a>: “In the grim darkness of the far future, there is only war.”<br></li>
<li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birds_Aren%27t_Real" rel="nofollow noopener">Birds Aren’t Real</a><br></li>
<li><a href="https://news.slashdot.org/story/26/04/13/0115243/robot-birds-deployed-by-park-to-attract-real-birds---built-by-high-school-students" rel="nofollow noopener">Robot Birds Deployed by Park to Attract Real Birds - Built By High School Students</a><br></li>
<li><a href="https://blog.cloudflare.com/markdown-for-agents/" rel="nofollow noopener">Introducing Markdown for Agents</a><br>

<ul>
<li>Counterpoint: <a href="https://bgslabs.org/blog/why-are-we-using-markdown/" rel="nofollow noopener">Why the heck are we still using Markdown??</a><br></li>
<li><a href="https://github.com/JuliusBrussee/caveman" rel="nofollow noopener">caveman</a>: why use many token when few do trick<br></li>
<li>See also: <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_Chinese" rel="nofollow noopener">Classical Chinese</a><br></li>
</ul></li>
<li>Dark Software Factories<br>

<ul>
<li><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDcgHzCBgmQ" rel="nofollow noopener">The 5 Levels of AI Coding (Why Most of You Won't Make It Past Level 2)</a> by Nate B. Jones<br></li>
<li>StrongDM Software Factory: <a href="https://factory.strongdm.ai/" rel="nofollow noopener">Software Factories And The Agentic Moment</a><br></li>
<li><a href="https://www.danshapiro.com/blog/2026/01/the-five-levels-from-spicy-autocomplete-to-the-software-factory/" rel="nofollow noopener">The Five Levels: from Spicy Autocomplete to the Dark Factory</a> by Dan Shapiro<br></li>
<li><a href="https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/208564/freedoms-forge-by-arthur-herman/" rel="nofollow noopener">Freedom’s Forge</a> by Arthur Herman<br></li>
<li><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhXgkQ3nYeE" rel="nofollow noopener">I Watched 3 Companies Lay Off Their Managers. All 3 Hit the Same Wall.</a> by Nate B. Jones</li>
</ul></li>
</ul>

<p><strong>Cutting Room Floor</strong></p>

<ul>
<li><a href="https://editor.p5js.org/isohedral/full/vJa5RiZWs" rel="nofollow noopener">Interactive XKCD Dependency comic</a><br></li>
<li><a href="https://www.neatorama.com/2026/02/19/A-Unique-Property-For-Sale-In-Pennsylvania/" rel="nofollow noopener">A Unique Property For Sale In Pennsylvania</a><br></li>
<li><a href="https://www.neatorama.com/2026/02/16/Luxurious-Home-in-a-Decommissioned-Grain-Elevator/" rel="nofollow noopener">Luxurious Home in a Decommissioned Grain Elevator</a></li>
</ul>]]>
  </content:encoded>
  <itunes:summary>
    <![CDATA[<p>This week <a href="https://dgshow.org/hosts/dave" rel="nofollow noopener">Dave</a> and <a href="https://dgshow.org/hosts/gunnar" rel="nofollow noopener">Gunnar</a> talk about markdown, caveman, and dark software factories!</p>

<ul>
<li><a href="https://warhammer40000.com/" rel="nofollow noopener">Warhammer 40,000</a>: “In the grim darkness of the far future, there is only war.”<br></li>
<li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birds_Aren%27t_Real" rel="nofollow noopener">Birds Aren’t Real</a><br></li>
<li><a href="https://news.slashdot.org/story/26/04/13/0115243/robot-birds-deployed-by-park-to-attract-real-birds---built-by-high-school-students" rel="nofollow noopener">Robot Birds Deployed by Park to Attract Real Birds - Built By High School Students</a><br></li>
<li><a href="https://blog.cloudflare.com/markdown-for-agents/" rel="nofollow noopener">Introducing Markdown for Agents</a><br>

<ul>
<li>Counterpoint: <a href="https://bgslabs.org/blog/why-are-we-using-markdown/" rel="nofollow noopener">Why the heck are we still using Markdown??</a><br></li>
<li><a href="https://github.com/JuliusBrussee/caveman" rel="nofollow noopener">caveman</a>: why use many token when few do trick<br></li>
<li>See also: <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_Chinese" rel="nofollow noopener">Classical Chinese</a><br></li>
</ul></li>
<li>Dark Software Factories<br>

<ul>
<li><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDcgHzCBgmQ" rel="nofollow noopener">The 5 Levels of AI Coding (Why Most of You Won't Make It Past Level 2)</a> by Nate B. Jones<br></li>
<li>StrongDM Software Factory: <a href="https://factory.strongdm.ai/" rel="nofollow noopener">Software Factories And The Agentic Moment</a><br></li>
<li><a href="https://www.danshapiro.com/blog/2026/01/the-five-levels-from-spicy-autocomplete-to-the-software-factory/" rel="nofollow noopener">The Five Levels: from Spicy Autocomplete to the Dark Factory</a> by Dan Shapiro<br></li>
<li><a href="https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/208564/freedoms-forge-by-arthur-herman/" rel="nofollow noopener">Freedom’s Forge</a> by Arthur Herman<br></li>
<li><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhXgkQ3nYeE" rel="nofollow noopener">I Watched 3 Companies Lay Off Their Managers. All 3 Hit the Same Wall.</a> by Nate B. Jones</li>
</ul></li>
</ul>

<p><strong>Cutting Room Floor</strong></p>

<ul>
<li><a href="https://editor.p5js.org/isohedral/full/vJa5RiZWs" rel="nofollow noopener">Interactive XKCD Dependency comic</a><br></li>
<li><a href="https://www.neatorama.com/2026/02/19/A-Unique-Property-For-Sale-In-Pennsylvania/" rel="nofollow noopener">A Unique Property For Sale In Pennsylvania</a><br></li>
<li><a href="https://www.neatorama.com/2026/02/16/Luxurious-Home-in-a-Decommissioned-Grain-Elevator/" rel="nofollow noopener">Luxurious Home in a Decommissioned Grain Elevator</a></li>
</ul>]]>
  </itunes:summary>
</item>
<item>
  <title>Episode 190: Calendar bankruptcy, or when was the last time you got good news in a telegram?</title>
  <link>https://dgshow.org/190</link>
  <guid isPermaLink="false">20ebbbde-a69c-4b37-97cd-35ccee6ad18f</guid>
  <pubDate>Tue, 31 Mar 2020 17:00:00 -0500</pubDate>
  <author>David Egts &amp; Gunnar Hellekson</author>
  <enclosure url="https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/1b67eddd-d80f-444d-ba32-aa9ef36b589d/20ebbbde-a69c-4b37-97cd-35ccee6ad18f.mp3" length="18505687" type="audio/mp3"/>
  <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
  <itunes:author>David Egts &amp; Gunnar Hellekson</itunes:author>
  <itunes:subtitle>This week Dave and Gunnar talk about location identification, dance identification, and blood pressure identification</itunes:subtitle>
  <itunes:duration>38:32</itunes:duration>
  <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
  <itunes:image href="https://media24.fireside.fm/file/fireside-images-2024/podcasts/images/1/1b67eddd-d80f-444d-ba32-aa9ef36b589d/episodes/2/20ebbbde-a69c-4b37-97cd-35ccee6ad18f/cover.jpg?v=1"/>
  <description>&lt;p&gt;This week &lt;a href="https://twitter.com/davidegts" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;Dave&lt;/a&gt; and &lt;a href="http://atechnologyjobisnoexcuse.com/about" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;Gunnar&lt;/a&gt; talk about: location identification, dance identification, and blood pressure identification&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;li&gt;  &lt;a href="https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2020/02/removing-a-gps-tracking-device-from-your-car-isnt-theft-court-rules/" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;Removing a GPS tracking device from your car isn’t theft, court rules&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;  &lt;a href="https://newatlas.com/science/dance-style-identification/" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;People can be identified by the way they dance&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;  &lt;a href="https://www.utoronto.ca/news/preventative-health-your-fingertips-u-t-researchers-accurately-measure-blood-pressure-using" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;Preventative health at your fingertips: U of T researchers accurately measure blood pressure using phone camera&lt;/a&gt;

&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;li&gt;  Job screening &lt;a href="https://bladerunner.fandom.com/wiki/Voight-Kampff_test" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;Voight-Kampff test&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;  &lt;a href="https://hbr.org/2019/07/how-to-reach-out-to-someone-whose-career-you-admire" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;How to Reach Out to Someone Whose Career You Admire&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;  &lt;a href="https://lifehacker.com/only-check-email-when-you-have-time-to-respond-1841042340" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;Only Check Email When You Have Time to Respond&lt;/a&gt;

&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;li&gt;  Related shameless plug: &lt;a href="https://enterprisersproject.com/article/2020/3/remote-working-14-email-tips" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;Remote working: 14 tips to improve emails at a critical time&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;  Corona Calendar Tips!&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;

&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Cutting Room Floor&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;li&gt;  &lt;a href="https://magicalsuperstore.com/" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;Reusable stained glass airplane window sticker&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;  &lt;a href="https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/dec/22/zuckerbot-mark-zuckerberg-facebook-botnik" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;'I am going to say quiet words in your face just like I did with Trump': a conversation with the Zuckerbot&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;

&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;We Give Thanks&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;li&gt;  The D&amp;amp;G Show Slack Clubhouse for the discussion topics! &lt;/li&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;
</description>
  <itunes:keywords>GPS, dancing, dancing biometrics, biometrics, blood pressure, Voight-Kampff, email, calendar, COVID-19, Coronavirus, stained glass, airplane window, Zuckerbot</itunes:keywords>
  <content:encoded>
    <![CDATA[<p>This week <a href="https://twitter.com/davidegts" rel="nofollow noopener">Dave</a> and <a href="http://atechnologyjobisnoexcuse.com/about" rel="nofollow noopener">Gunnar</a> talk about: location identification, dance identification, and blood pressure identification</p>

<ul>
<li>  <a href="https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2020/02/removing-a-gps-tracking-device-from-your-car-isnt-theft-court-rules/" rel="nofollow noopener">Removing a GPS tracking device from your car isn’t theft, court rules</a></li>
<li>  <a href="https://newatlas.com/science/dance-style-identification/" rel="nofollow noopener">People can be identified by the way they dance</a></li>
<li>  <a href="https://www.utoronto.ca/news/preventative-health-your-fingertips-u-t-researchers-accurately-measure-blood-pressure-using" rel="nofollow noopener">Preventative health at your fingertips: U of T researchers accurately measure blood pressure using phone camera</a>

<ul>
<li>  Job screening <a href="https://bladerunner.fandom.com/wiki/Voight-Kampff_test" rel="nofollow noopener">Voight-Kampff test</a></li>
</ul></li>
<li>  <a href="https://hbr.org/2019/07/how-to-reach-out-to-someone-whose-career-you-admire" rel="nofollow noopener">How to Reach Out to Someone Whose Career You Admire</a></li>
<li>  <a href="https://lifehacker.com/only-check-email-when-you-have-time-to-respond-1841042340" rel="nofollow noopener">Only Check Email When You Have Time to Respond</a>

<ul>
<li>  Related shameless plug: <a href="https://enterprisersproject.com/article/2020/3/remote-working-14-email-tips" rel="nofollow noopener">Remote working: 14 tips to improve emails at a critical time</a></li>
</ul></li>
<li>  Corona Calendar Tips!</li>
</ul>

<p><strong>Cutting Room Floor</strong></p>

<ul>
<li>  <a href="https://magicalsuperstore.com/" rel="nofollow noopener">Reusable stained glass airplane window sticker</a></li>
<li>  <a href="https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/dec/22/zuckerbot-mark-zuckerberg-facebook-botnik" rel="nofollow noopener">'I am going to say quiet words in your face just like I did with Trump': a conversation with the Zuckerbot</a></li>
</ul>

<p><strong>We Give Thanks</strong></p>

<ul>
<li>  The D&amp;G Show Slack Clubhouse for the discussion topics!</li>
</ul>]]>
  </content:encoded>
  <itunes:summary>
    <![CDATA[<p>This week <a href="https://twitter.com/davidegts" rel="nofollow noopener">Dave</a> and <a href="http://atechnologyjobisnoexcuse.com/about" rel="nofollow noopener">Gunnar</a> talk about: location identification, dance identification, and blood pressure identification</p>

<ul>
<li>  <a href="https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2020/02/removing-a-gps-tracking-device-from-your-car-isnt-theft-court-rules/" rel="nofollow noopener">Removing a GPS tracking device from your car isn’t theft, court rules</a></li>
<li>  <a href="https://newatlas.com/science/dance-style-identification/" rel="nofollow noopener">People can be identified by the way they dance</a></li>
<li>  <a href="https://www.utoronto.ca/news/preventative-health-your-fingertips-u-t-researchers-accurately-measure-blood-pressure-using" rel="nofollow noopener">Preventative health at your fingertips: U of T researchers accurately measure blood pressure using phone camera</a>

<ul>
<li>  Job screening <a href="https://bladerunner.fandom.com/wiki/Voight-Kampff_test" rel="nofollow noopener">Voight-Kampff test</a></li>
</ul></li>
<li>  <a href="https://hbr.org/2019/07/how-to-reach-out-to-someone-whose-career-you-admire" rel="nofollow noopener">How to Reach Out to Someone Whose Career You Admire</a></li>
<li>  <a href="https://lifehacker.com/only-check-email-when-you-have-time-to-respond-1841042340" rel="nofollow noopener">Only Check Email When You Have Time to Respond</a>

<ul>
<li>  Related shameless plug: <a href="https://enterprisersproject.com/article/2020/3/remote-working-14-email-tips" rel="nofollow noopener">Remote working: 14 tips to improve emails at a critical time</a></li>
</ul></li>
<li>  Corona Calendar Tips!</li>
</ul>

<p><strong>Cutting Room Floor</strong></p>

<ul>
<li>  <a href="https://magicalsuperstore.com/" rel="nofollow noopener">Reusable stained glass airplane window sticker</a></li>
<li>  <a href="https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/dec/22/zuckerbot-mark-zuckerberg-facebook-botnik" rel="nofollow noopener">'I am going to say quiet words in your face just like I did with Trump': a conversation with the Zuckerbot</a></li>
</ul>

<p><strong>We Give Thanks</strong></p>

<ul>
<li>  The D&amp;G Show Slack Clubhouse for the discussion topics!</li>
</ul>]]>
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